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How to Help Yourself More Than You Help Others – Margery Miller – Episode 53 Transcript

Announcer:                        For the best
information, inspiration and advice on how to get healthy and fit after 40 W
Tucker will interview national experts in exercise training, diet, nutrition,
mindfulness in all aspects of healthy living to help you live longer, better.
So now here’s your host, W Tucker.

W Tucker:                            Hello. Hello. Hello.
It is W Tucker and we are doing Facebook live today too. How exciting? Oh my
God. And we have an exciting guest. I’m so happy to have her here. Marjorie
Miller and she is multi, multi, multi, multi talented. I met her originally at
an entrepreneur session where you were helping entrepreneurs, right?

Margery
Miller:                 That’s right.

W Tucker:                            At the Tree House.

Margery
Miller:                 I met their
entrepreneurs.

W Tucker:                            Tell us a little bit
about that.

Margery Miller:                 The Addison Tree House is a
coworking space and an incubator for entrepreneurs. It’s part of the Dallas
Entrepreneurship Center. It’s one of the satellites, but-

W Tucker:                            It’s one of the DEC.

Margery
Miller:                 DEC.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 But the director
there, the executive director, Nancy Hong has a vision of creating a community.
So, she was asking for people to mentor, and I said, “Well, mentoring
costs a lot of money for me. You have to pay me my $250 an hour for being a
coach. But I’ll come and do two hours a week as a volunteer because I love
brainstorming.”

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 So, I go on
Tuesday afternoon, sometimes it’s a Thursday.

W Tucker:                            I think I met you on
a Thursday.

Margery
Miller:                 Yeah. It was,
either way, sometimes we do a Thursday. But she puts it on the schedule and
people come in. Like yesterday, we had probably 20 people in there.

W Tucker:                            Wow.

Margery
Miller:                 Sharing ideas, and
we just spend a couple hours-

W Tucker:                            That must be
exciting.

Margery
Miller:                 It’s way fun. And
also, I love that I have a lot of, a lot of experience. I ran my own
manufacturers rep firm for 29 years. I’ve coached and consulted with hundreds
of businesses. I’ve coached-

W Tucker:                            Wow.

Margery
Miller:                 … so many
people. And then, I have a lot of ideas that people don’t even think about.

W Tucker:                            Right. So, one of
the interesting things is when I was there, there was a gentleman to my right
who had great ideas. the but the the director, they are the executive director.
Nancy Hong has a vision of creating a community. I don’t know if you remember
him. He had these great ideas and he just couldn’t get started.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, part of the
problem was his great ideas weren’t very realistic. And one of the things that
I encourage people to do-

W Tucker:                            It had to do with
warehousing and all robot and all that sort of stuff, right?

Margery
Miller:                 Yeah, but they
have to get really realistic about what is doable.

W Tucker:                            So is that a common
thing that you see?

Margery
Miller:                 Very.

W Tucker:                            Very common.

Margery
Miller:                 Especially the
younger they are.

W Tucker:                            The younger they
are.

Margery
Miller:                 No offense to
young people because they’re great.

W Tucker:                            The more diluted
they are.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, yeah because
they just get out of college and they say, “I’m going to do this and it’s
going to sell.”

W Tucker:                            Well sure, and you
don’t want to squash that but you also want them to be realistic.

Margery
Miller:                 So, I have a
reality based thinking attitude.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 And I challenge
them.

W Tucker:                            So, what was
interesting about him, what I remember about him was that it was a great idea,
right?

Margery
Miller:                 Yes.

W Tucker:                            And what you and I
and some of the other people in there who had more experience as entrepreneurs
just wanted to shake him. That was, you just wanted to shake him. It’s like oh
come on, get your shit together.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, and like
yesterday there was a woman there who had 50 ideas and she said, “Here’s
my problem. I’m really smart. I know that. I’m really good, I’m always
brainstorming. And I’ve got so many ideas I need to focus on one.” And she
couldn’t get herself with the discipline. So, I actually had to use my-

W Tucker:                            To do one.

Margery
Miller:                 … coaching
skills because as a life coach I have to delve into sometimes who they are and
I had to use that skill to say, “Okay, how are you… How did you grow
up?” And she was like shocked that I asked her the question. It turns out
her mother was not a disciplinarian, had five kids and the kids were on their
own. I said, “So, the problem is if you were not parented properly to
become disciplined as a child, it is very hard to have it as an adult.”

W Tucker:                            So, it’s something
that started very early in life for her.

Margery
Miller:                 Exactly.

W Tucker:                            And she was
undisciplined, so she just continued that in her whole life.

Margery
Miller:                 So, she could
focus on one project because she kept getting distracted by all these other
things.

W Tucker:                            So, what’s
interesting is that she knew what the problem was.

Margery
Miller:                 Yeah.

W Tucker:                            Sometimes people
don’t, right?

Margery
Miller:                 But she didn’t
know the solution.

W Tucker:                            She didn’t know the
solution, but she knew the problem was that she couldn’t do them all.

Margery
Miller:                 Exactly. So, what
I explained to her is that she just needed to become her own parent because
most of us as adults have to re-parent ourselves. Because even if we had

[crosstalk 00:04:27]

W Tucker:                            Now, that’s a very
interesting concept.

Margery
Miller:                 Yes it is.

W Tucker:                            Very interesting
concept. That you have to be your own parent.

Margery
Miller:                 You do. So,
there’s a little child in you that wants everything.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 And wants
gratification. You’ve got to take hold of that little child and go, and this is
like, it sounds like psychobabble, but I guarantee you it’s not babble. It’s
real.

W Tucker:                            It’s real.

Margery
Miller:                 You have to…
Whoops, sorry. You have to take that little child in hand and say, “I’ve got
you. I’m the adult here, and I’m going to help you work these things out.”
And then I gave her lots of tips on how to rein herself in.

W Tucker:                            What would be a
couple tips for somebody, like I’m kind of the same way in that I get a new
idea every week about some business or some entrepreneurial thing I want to
pursue. And so, what are a couple of tips that you gave her that would help her
kind of narrow down?

Margery
Miller:                 Well, I used the
example of a little child and I actually said, “You’ve probably got a
whole bunch of more little kids in there and if you need to, name them, like
this one, Suzy, this one’s Joey. Whatever you need to do to get a grasp on the
fact that you’ve got one real little child in there inside you that is you,
who’s wanting instant gratification.” And then you have to be able to say,
I know what you want. I’m not able to give it to you today. We’re going to
table that conversation and do it on this day. Today we’re going to focus on
this. And it’s really a parenting skill.

W Tucker:                            So, each of those
children that she named is a project or-

Margery
Miller:                 Exactly.

W Tucker:                            … a business or
something that she wants to pursue.

Margery
Miller:                 I was just
jokingly calling them children. You can name them anything. You can say, you
know, barn yard thing, or whatever. But the point is that if you don’t develop
some discipline with yourself, you’re going to end up getting disbursed all the
time. And what I had her keep focusing on the work diluted because when you
have a concentration of liquid, if you dilute it, it has no power.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 So, I also brought
up-

W Tucker:                            So, that was a
concept that… Did she understand that?

Margery
Miller:                 Oh, she’s smart.

W Tucker:                            Very smart, right.

Margery
Miller:                 The other thing I
helped her see is that if you want to start building more discipline, you have
to also add some other things in your life that are disciplined, such as diet
and exercise.

W Tucker:                            Oh, so you think
somebody like that is undisciplined in all the areas of their life?

Margery
Miller:                 Oh, of course.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 And because one of
the things that we do for ourselves is reward ourselves for the things we’re
frustrated about. We give ourselves extra food, or we lay off exercise. We lack
discipline when we’re trying to give ourselves reward for somehow being good,
even though we’re not achieving things.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 And that’s a
misguided way of treating ourselves.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 So, the suggestion
was figure out how to get more disciplined in a couple of areas. It might be
diet, it might be exercise, it might be spending money.

W Tucker:                            So, try them one at
a time, or kind of slowly add discipline?

Margery
Miller:                 Well, no you just-

W Tucker:                            No?

Margery
Miller:                 You just start
practicing things in a more disciplined… And the keyword here is strategic
way.

W Tucker:                            Okay.

Margery
Miller:                 So you’ve got to
step back and look at… I also use the age old skill of if you want to be over
here in a goal, and this is what you want to achieve, you’ve got to step all
the way back and think of all the steps you would have had to take to get
there.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 That’s age old
business coaching.

W Tucker:                            Right, but that’s
not something everybody understand.

Margery
Miller:                 most people don’t
even know about.

W Tucker:                            Right. right, right,
right. So, what’s interesting is I’m kind of that person too.

Margery
Miller:                 See, I’m helping
you today.

W Tucker:                            Yes. So, one of the
things that somebody said to me, and it may have bene somebody like Jim Roan,
or one of the gurus, said, and I remember, will never, ever, ever forget it.
And that is, he said, “He who chases two rabbits catches neither.”

Margery
Miller:                 Right.

W Tucker:                            And so I always
think, oh yeah, can’t be chasing three or two, or I’ve got to chase one rabbit.

Margery
Miller:                 You have to put
your priorities… You know, people have a difficult time prioritizing. The
other thing I suggested that she do is get really clear on her life purpose,
and what she cares about most.

W Tucker:                            Most, right.

Margery
Miller:                 Because when you
link it to where your heart is, then you are much more able to say, “No,
I’m going to put that thing aside because this is where I’m really, this is my
sweet. I’m going to stay in it.”

W Tucker:                            Right. Right. So, it
is, for me, it is podcasting is my passion. So, that’s kind of what I’m
pursuing. I have other career that sort of pays the bills, but this really is
my passion. This is really what I want to do. So, I do understand where I want
to go. And, part of it is that sort of like, oh yeah, you can’t be chasing two
rabbits, three rabbits or four rabbits. There’s only one and that’s the only
way you’re going to catch it.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, and it
doesn’t mean you don’t do other things.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 You just make sure
you do first things first.

W Tucker:                            Right. Right, right,
right. So, the other interesting thing about that is there’s a book that Gary
Keller wrote, called One. Are you familiar with that?

Margery
Miller:                 One?

W Tucker:                            One.

Margery
Miller:                 Okay.

W Tucker:                            And it’s that same
concept. It’s that concept of just do one thing at a time.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, there’s
another book that I really love that I read back in probably the early 2000s.
It was called, The One True Thing. I don’t know if you know about Marcus
Buckingham who did that gallop research on what makes great managers. It was
called First Break All the Rules. It was published in probably ’99.

W Tucker:                            First Break All the
Rules.

Margery
Miller:                 And I studied it a
lot because I was doing a lot of business coaching and consulting back then.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 I did business
coaching and consulting along with running a manufacturers rep firm. I always
had a side hustle.

W Tucker:                            Wow.

Margery
Miller:                 Because I built a
business that ran itself and I spent a lot of time out in the world. I only worked
in my business the last 14 years, four to 10 hours a week. The rest of the time
I was out in the world training other people how to build those kinds of
businesses.

W Tucker:                            Okay, got it, got
it.

Margery
Miller:                 So, I love that
kind of stuff. But the First Break All the Rules was what makes great managers
and how do you manage people better. Then, he followed up with a book, which
was his learning experience when the Gallop Organization kept promoting him up
into the management role, and he realized that wasn’t his one, true thing. And
that’s why he wrote the book.

W Tucker:                            And that happens all
the time though, right?

Margery
Miller:                 Yes.

W Tucker:                            I mean, you’re so
good. You make fantastic sales and then, they make you the manager and you go,
“This is not what I’m good at.”

Margery
Miller:                 Having run a
manufacturers rep firm for 29 years, sales people are not that great at
managing.

W Tucker:                            Miserable manager.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I just recently read about a man who stared a business.
Very, very successful, just widely successful. And what naturally happens is
that you end up managing the people that you hired to help you. And pretty
soon, you end up not being a sales person but a manager. So, guess what
happened to his company? It started to slide.

Margery
Miller:                 Right.

W Tucker:                            So, he realized this
and his solution, which was the right solution, was hire a manager and go back
into sales.

Margery
Miller:                 Exactly.

W Tucker:                            Yeah. So-

Margery
Miller:                 I’ve recommended
that to a lot of people.

W Tucker:                            Yeah. But I don’t
think a lot of people understand that because I’ve been there.

Margery
Miller:                 And people’s egos
get involved.

W Tucker:                            Sure.

Margery
Miller:                 And people’s micro
management kicks in when they want it to be right, and they try to tell
everybody how to do things. That is not the way to manage people.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 There’s so many.
We can discuss that another time. I have a book called Sound Business Bites, this
one.

W Tucker:                            Yes. We are.

Margery
Miller:                 Which is my
experience of running a manufacturers rep firm, which tells people all about
customer service and management. Quick read, it’s really good.

W Tucker:                            Fantastic. So, we’re
doing two sessions, and in this session is kind of the session one. And then,
we’re going to do session two about Sound Business Bites. So, just stay tuned
folks. We will be back, but not for another couple of weeks. But anyway, so
yes.

W Tucker:                            So, let’s… You’re
an author, and you do… So, here’s the other thing that I discovered. When I
had a business and it was not doing well, this was years ago, I hired

[inaudible 00:12:23]

Austin. I hired a business coach, but here’s what
happened. She ended up being my life coach.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, I’ll tell
you the truth. I don’t take on clients that only want business coaching. If
they don’t understand, you are a 360 degree person. And I have never seen a
business fail from external sources. I’m telling you, all the years I’ve been doing
coaching-

W Tucker:                            It’s all inside.

Margery
Miller:                 Life is an inside
job, and your business is an inside job.

W Tucker:                            It’s an inside job.

Margery
Miller:                 So, what I like to
do if I’m going to do team building and people development, which I don’t do
really much anymore. I did a ton in the 90s, 2000s, I spent a lot of years
doing that.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 I like to work
with the owner of the business and help figure out what their bottlenecks are.
I don’t know if you ever read the book, The Goal. It was published around ’85,
’84 by Ellie Goldrat and it was the business bible for years. All about how if
you go into a manufacturing company you’re looking for the bottle necks that
hold back the flow. And I understood that book so well because I read it and
loved it. I applied it-

W Tucker:                            Was that when you
were doing manufacturing rep?

Margery
Miller:                 Yeah, because I
visited factories all the time. And we sold commercial [inaudible 00:13:36] equipment, so it was big heavy stuff.

W Tucker:                            Oh wow.

Margery
Miller:                 And I learned to
apply that to businesses, even service businesses, insurance companies. All
kinds of businesses to understand there are always bottlenecks, and often it’s
within the owner.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 So, you’ve got to
break that down.

W Tucker:                            Yeah, that’s what I
discovered. I discovered that I hired this woman to help me with my business,
and it soon became very clear that the problem was me.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, it always
is. There was a cartoon called Pogo back when I was a kid.

W Tucker:                            Yeah, I remember
Pogo.

Margery
Miller:                 And it was one of
the little Pogo ones was you’ve seen the enemy and it is us.

W Tucker:                            It is us. Yes.

Margery
Miller:                 So, that’s just
true.

W Tucker:                            It’s true, but I
think a lot of businesses don’t understand that.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, they don’t
want to know.

W Tucker:                            Right, they don’t
want to know-

Margery
Miller:                 It’s not that they
don’t understand. They could. They’re all smart enough. Well, most of them.
They don’t want to know because that means they have to do something about
themselves and they’d rather-

W Tucker:                            They have to work on
themselves, right.

Margery
Miller:                 People in this
country, I’m sorry to say, the majority of people in this country are playing
the blame game and looking for the sources outside of themselves for their
issues.

W Tucker:                            Wow.

Margery
Miller:                 And that’s why we
have such a litigious society.

W Tucker:                            I think you’re
right.

Margery
Miller:                 Yeah.

W Tucker:                            I think you’re
right.

Margery Miller:                 I know I’m right. That’s why I
wrote this book.

W Tucker:                            The book,
Confessions of a Recovering-

Margery
Miller:                 I’m banging on the
table. I’m sorry. I hope I didn’t offend anybody’s-

W Tucker:                            Well, here’s the
thing I didn’t tell you when we get started. Mistakes are good for podcasts-

Margery
Miller:                 Oh good.

W Tucker:                            Because people then
know that we’re real.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, I’m
definitely real. And you’ll know that when you read this book because it’s
called Confessions of a Recovering Help-Aholic.

W Tucker:                            So, you’re a
help-aholic.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, yeah. And
I’m a recovering one, and I’m determined not to go back to the love slave
business. That’s what I call it. I’m out of the love slave business.

W Tucker:                            Say that again, love
slave business.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, the love
slave business is-

W Tucker:                            Explain that.

Margery
Miller:                 Is the same thing
as a help-aholic, where you are doing more for other people than you do for
yourself.

W Tucker:                            Okay. Okay.

Margery
Miller:                 And I wrote the
book because-

W Tucker:                            And that’s kind of a
disease.

Margery
Miller:                 It is a disease,
and I made it sort of light. You can see the picture. My best friend did the
art in here and she did great art for me. But I wanted to have a lightness to
it because it’s not the same as alcoholism, drug addiction those kinds of
things.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 But it is a form
of holism where we get stuck in these patterns and habits. So, I created a 12
step program for people to stop giving themselves away and start learning to
create a life that works for them. That’s the basis of my coaching. And this
just showed up, you know, when I write I just get inspired-

W Tucker:                            So, that just kind
of occurred?

Margery
Miller:                 It just started
coming out of me because I started realizing all these things that I’d learned.
I just turned 72 a couple days ago.

W Tucker:                            Oh my gosh.

Margery
Miller:                 So, in my
wonderfully long life, which I look to see go another 30 years at least. I’ve
learned a whole lot, and I just started putting it down. And when I started
writing about help-holism I realized I have to create a 12 step program. So,
the very first step-

W Tucker:                            Because you were
sort of helping yourself.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, everything
I… Even coaching you’re helping yourself.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 We teach what we
have to learn. So, when somebody-

W Tucker:                            Oh right!

Margery
Miller:                 … comes to me
with a problem-

W Tucker:                            You can’t give what
you don’t have.

Margery
Miller:                 There’s something
I’m going to learn in the process of working with them.

W Tucker:                            Sure.

Margery
Miller:                 So, what I
realized was the first step, step number one of my 12 step program is add a
little cynicism to your life. Ask yourself what’s in it for me? Because
help-aholics don’t do that.

W Tucker:                            Oh.

Margery
Miller:                 That’s not the
first thing they ask.

W Tucker:                            That’s not the first
thing they think about.

Margery
Miller:                 No, the first
thing they think about is how can I help?

W Tucker:                            So, there’s no
what’s in it for me in that?

Margery
Miller:                 No.

W Tucker:                            No.

Margery
Miller:                 No, and it’s not-

W Tucker:                            Now, is that
unnatural?

Margery
Miller:                 That is… Is it
unnatural?

W Tucker:                            Yeah.

Margery
Miller:                 It’s-

W Tucker:                            Aren’t we always
kind of looking what’s in it for me, or not?

Margery
Miller:                 You are. Men are
more than women.

W Tucker:                            Oh. oh.

Margery
Miller:                 And I don’t care
what your age is. This thing applies to every age. This applies to-

W Tucker:                            Now, there’s a very
interesting concept.

Margery Miller:                 Every age. Men tend to be much
more self oriented. Especially men your age, no offense W.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 But men who are
over 35/40.

W Tucker:                            Right, I’m
definitely over 40.

Margery
Miller:                 Were acculturated
to be important.

W Tucker:                            Oh.

Margery
Miller:                 In their families,
unless you were just beaten down.

W Tucker:                            Yeah, and-

Margery
Miller:                 The son is
carrying on the legacy-

W Tucker:                            Well, not only was I
a son, I was the only son. I was the oldest.

Margery
Miller:                 There you go. And
you have the legacy of the family to carry.

W Tucker:                            I do, absolutely.

Margery
Miller:                 So, that focus was
put on you.

W Tucker:                            Yes.

Margery
Miller:                 To be a leader, to
be important and all that. The focus on you… Do you have some sisters?

W Tucker:                            This is the truth.
So, it was me that all the pressure was on to do good at school, to have a
great career, and my sisters just kind of slid under me.

Margery
Miller:                 And what they did
was there’s got to be at least one of those sisters, I don’t know how many
there were.

W Tucker:                            Two.

Margery
Miller:                 At least one of
them is more survival than the other.

W Tucker:                            Yes, absolutely.

Margery
Miller:                 Because somebody
in the family-

W Tucker:                            The middle one.

Margery
Miller:                 And usually it’s
the second.

W Tucker:                            Yeah, the second.

Margery
Miller:                 Child.

W Tucker:                            The middle, yeah.

Margery
Miller:                 I’m the second
daughter.

W Tucker:                            She kind of got
ignored.

Margery
Miller:                 The second
daughter. So, here’s what I write about in this book.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery Miller:                 I created a persona that could
belong in a family I felt I didn’t belong in.

W Tucker:                            Now, say that again.

Margery
Miller:                 I created a
persona that could belong in a family I didn’t feel like I belonged in.

W Tucker:                            Wow.

Margery
Miller:                 Because my older
sister was the-

W Tucker:                            Was the first born.

Margery
Miller:                 … smart one.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 The rest of them
were discarded. I have two more sisters.

W Tucker:                            Right, were you the
middle?

Margery
Miller:                 I was the second daughter.
And my mother, by the time she was 25, had four daughters under the age of
five.

W Tucker:                            Oh my gosh.

Margery
Miller:                 So, my mother, who
happened to be a very vague person anyway, was not good at setting up
strategies and relationship building. And back in the 50s when I grew up people
didn’t even think about how children could learn from their interactions. They
either were allowed to fight or they weren’t. I was not. We weren’t. I was the
emotional lightening rod in the family and nobody else was like that.
Therefore, I knew I didn’t belong. So, I had to figure out a way to move on-

W Tucker:                            So you, from an
early age, you figured out you didn’t belong.

Margery
Miller:                 And I started
helping everybody. That was my identity.

W Tucker:                            So, that was your
way to belong.

Margery
Miller:                 The more I helped,
the more I felt valuable.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 And it wasn’t that
they valued me particularly, I just felt valuable by doing it.

W Tucker:                            By doing it. And
that’s where your help-aholism started.

Margery
Miller:                 Exactly. So,
somebody in a family’s got that.

W Tucker:                            Somebody.

Margery
Miller:                 Usually.

W Tucker:                            Always.

Margery
Miller:                 Not always, but
I’m saying, somebody often does and it’s usually a woman.

W Tucker:                            Usually a woman.

Margery
Miller:                 Although, I have
men clients that have read this book going, “Thank God you wrote that for
me.” Because it entails… The first one is cynicism. The second one is
stop taking responsibility for other people’s experience.

W Tucker:                            Right, now that’s a
tough one.

Margery
Miller:                 Yes, but we do it.

W Tucker:                            Yeah, we do it.

Margery
Miller:                 And the third one
is be kind to yourself. Those are the first three steps. Be kinder to yourself.
Where we spend a lot of time being kind to other people, but usually there’s a
motive in there and I had to face within me that the motive was to belong. So,
my work through creating this, and also studying metaphysics and cosmology and
so many things I’ve studied all through the years, personal development, human
behavior, all of these things.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 Helped me learn
that the place, the only place I will ever truly belong, completely and utterly
unconditionally is to myself.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 And the only
person that can love me that much is me. And when I do that, then I can get the
love reflected back to me, and I do. All over the place.

W Tucker:                            That’s a very tough
lesson though.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, it’s a
journey. It’s a life journey. You don’t get the lesson and then you’re done.
That’s the other thing that coaching clients have a hard time recognizing.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 They want to
get… They want to come and get, learn how to do something and say,
“Okay, I’m done now. I’m fixed.” There’s no fixing in the human
experience. There is an evolving consciousness.

W Tucker:                            It’s a process.

Margery Miller:                 Yes.

W Tucker:                            Yes. I know. It’s
like you don’t go to the gym one time and you’re done, right?

Margery
Miller:                 No. In fact, I was
on the floor doing Palates this morning because I’m going to be doing them
until I’m 100 I’m sure.

W Tucker:                            It’s a practice.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, it’s if I
don’t have it, I don’t have the agility that I want.

W Tucker:                            Sure.

Margery
Miller:                 So, you have to
figure out how to put in things in your life that help your life work for you.
That’s what this book is about. So, the first six steps are about facing
yourself. And the next six steps are healing yourself.

W Tucker:                            So, did you just
name the three, the first three?

Margery
Miller:                 The first three.

W Tucker:                            Let’s talk about
those again.

Margery
Miller:                 Okay. Step one-

W Tucker:                            Cynicism.

Margery
Miller:                 Add a little
cynicism to your life. Ask yourself what’s in it for me.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 Step two, stop
taking responsibility for other people’s experiences.

W Tucker:                            Wow. Now, see, a lot
of women mothers do that.

Margery
Miller:                 Of course.

W Tucker:                            Yeah. I mean, that’s
almost a role.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, it’s because
it’s the identity they create for themselves to be valuable.

W Tucker:                            To be valuable.

Margery
Miller:                 Everybody wants to
love and be loved.

W Tucker:                            Sure.

Margery
Miller:                 That is the human
need.

W Tucker:                            So, that’s one way
to do it.

Margery
Miller:                 Yeah, we all just
want to be loved.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 We’re not that
skilled at it. It takes skill to be loved. You have to love yourself.

W Tucker:                            You have to love
yourself. And that’s what I said. You can’t get what you don’t-

Margery
Miller:                 Exactly.

W Tucker:                            You can’t get what
you don’t have.

Margery
Miller:                 That’s exactly it.
So, step three is be kinder to yourself. Step four, you’re going to love this
one.

W Tucker:                            Okay.

Margery
Miller:                 Sorry. Set firm
boundaries with family members. And that is not just your immediate family.
That is also your family of choice. Your work family. You’re in family for your
whole life. You may not see it, but people recreate their-

W Tucker:                            Families.

Margery
Miller:                 Family of origin-

W Tucker:                            At work.

Margery
Miller:                 At work. With
their friends. Everybody around you is part of the family of choice, if not
your original family. And you get to decide which ones really work for you, and
which ones don’t.

W Tucker:                            So, setting
boundaries with family is tougher than it sounds.

Margery
Miller:                 It is. It is. And
I go into a long explanation of how I didn’t do that well, and it blew up in my
face. I’m just owning it. That’s all, because if I don’t own my stuff, then
how’s anybody going to learn from it?

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 And I’ve got a lot
of stuff in here.

W Tucker:                            So, you’re kind of
protecting yourself, I guess.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, if you
don’t, who will?

W Tucker:                            Who will, right.

Margery
Miller:                 Because we keep
having this fantasy, someone’s going to come up… First of all, Prince
Charming isn’t coming, girls, ladies. I don’t care how old you are.

W Tucker:                            He doesn’t exist.

Margery
Miller:                 He ain’t coming.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 Second of all,
there’s nobody that’s going to have your best interest at heart if you don’t.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 So, then step
number five.

W Tucker:                            Okay.

Margery
Miller:                 Wait a minute,
what is it? I just went blank. Step number five.

W Tucker:                            Wait, refer to the
book.

Margery
Miller:                 Yeah, I’m going to
have to refer to the book because you know I forget. Step number five is… I
love these. Oh, remember that help is the happy side of control.

W Tucker:                            Help is the happy
side of control.

Margery
Miller:                 We’re trying to
get to a certain-

W Tucker:                            Explain that.

Margery
Miller:                 … outcome.

W Tucker:                            Okay.

Margery
Miller:                 So, if I help my
sister, then she’s going to like me. Then, I’m going to get what I want. I’m
going to get her to have the dress I want her to wear to the dance or whatever.
Whatever help I’m offering somebody, I have to look at myself and ask myself,
how attached am I to the outcome?

W Tucker:                            Interesting.

Margery
Miller:                 So, that’s one of
the things I do with my clients. I give them four questions all day long to
answer.

W Tucker:                            You want to be less-

Margery
Miller:                 Attached.

W Tucker:                            Attached to the
outcome.

Margery
Miller:                 So, here are the
four questions that help you heal that.

W Tucker:                            Okay.

Margery
Miller:                 All day long you
ask yourself this, in all activities. How do I feel about that? Is that what I
really want to do? How attached to the outcome am I? And is it fun?

W Tucker:                            And is it fun? I like
that one.

Margery
Miller:                 So, that frees you
up from helping people. So, they’ll have… It’ll go your way. People don’t
realize we want things to go our way.

W Tucker:                            So, we have a
projected outcome that we want to have happen.

Margery
Miller:                 Even if it’s
somebody else’s life.

W Tucker:                            Right, well that’s
what my mother, my mother running everybody’s life-

Margery
Miller:                 Exactly.

W Tucker:                            Because that’s what
she does.

Margery
Miller:                 But you’ve got to
own your own time too, because you do it too, you just may not see it. And
that’s what we call blind spots.

W Tucker:                            Right. Right. So,
say those four again. I want to listen to them again.

Margery
Miller:                 Is that what I
really want to do? How do I feel about that?

W Tucker:                            How do I feel about
it?

Margery
Miller:                 Is that what I
really, or this, whatever, is it what I really want to do? How attached to the
outcome am I? Is it fun?

W Tucker:                            Is it fun? Yeah.

Margery
Miller:                 See, most people
don’t have fun.

W Tucker:                            Those are great
questions.

Margery Miller:                 Most people only have fun when
they go out and drink too much.

W Tucker:                            Sure.

Margery
Miller:                 The rest of the
time they’re getting through life.

W Tucker:                            Sure. Sure, sure,
sure. So, we’re having fun now.

Margery
Miller:                 I am, because I
only have fun. I live this.

W Tucker:                            This is the most fun
I have when I’m doing a podcast. So yes.

Margery
Miller:                 This is the only
kind of conversations I’m willing to have anymore.

W Tucker:                            Right, right, right,
right. So, that is all very, very fascinating. So, that was number-

Margery
Miller:                 That was five.

W Tucker:                            That was five, okay.

Margery
Miller:                 And number six is
stop thinking with me it’ll be different. Because look, people out there show
you who they are, but we make up a story. But if they get involved with me, if
I do this, it’s going to be different. It’s not reality based thinking.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 Just like those
business kids that come in and go, “My idea is going to take off. With me
it’ll be different. I don’t have to… I can skip all the steps that business
people have to go through.” No, bong, wrong answer.

W Tucker:                            I think that last
one is just perpetuated everywhere. You know? If I marry, this person is going
to be different.

Margery
Miller:                 Right. And the
idea is, I want to know who they are, really.

W Tucker:                            Guess what? They’re
not. They’re not.

Margery
Miller:                 So, as I said,
those first six steps are facing yourself. Who am I? What am I doing? What am I
up to and how can I change how I act?

W Tucker:                            Boy, if everybody
knew that it would be a different world.

Margery
Miller:                 This should be a
best seller, but I haven’t got the energy right now to go out there and try to
make it that. But I just talk about wherever I go.

W Tucker:                            Sure.

Margery
Miller:                 So, the next six
steps are facing yourself.

W Tucker:                            So, those-

Margery
Miller:                 I mean healing
yourself, I’m sorry.

W Tucker:                            Healing. So, that is
like knowing yourself. Who am I?

Margery
Miller:                 You’ve figured out
what you’re doing that isn’t working.

W Tucker:                            Oh okay.

Margery
Miller:                 Now, let’s figure
out how to do something different.

W Tucker:                            Okay.

Margery
Miller:                 So, step number
seven is learn the art of proactive waiting.

W Tucker:                            Proactive waiting.

Margery
Miller:                 Yes.

W Tucker:                            Now, you really have
to describe that.

Margery
Miller:                 Well, I didn’t
know when you were going to contact me to do a podcast, for example.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 So, I go about my
life. I have no control over when you’re going to call me or someone else is,
or someone’s going to hire me. I don’t control that.

W Tucker:                            Sure. So you don’t-

Margery
Miller:                 What I control is
what I do while I’m waiting for anything to happen.

W Tucker:                            So you just don’t
worry about it.

Margery
Miller:                 That’s right. I be
proactive in my life.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 And I don’t stop
being proactive because a lot of times people put themselves on hold. I have
known women who didn’t buy nice dishes or linens for their homes because they
had a fantasy that somebody was going to come along and ask him to marry him
and then, they do it. That is not proactive waiting.

W Tucker:                            Right.

Margery
Miller:                 My house is
lovely, and I’m single right now, although I have a boyfriend. But, I didn’t do
it for him. I do it for me.

W Tucker:                            Right. Right.

Margery
Miller:                 And then, that’s
part of self love, which makes me actually more attractive to somebody because
I’m already full. I’m not looking for you to fill my holes. I’m looking for you
to enjoy who I am.

W Tucker:                            Exactly.

Margery
Miller:                 And so that’s a
form of proactive waiting.

W Tucker:                            That is wonderful.
Yeah, that is.

Margery
Miller:                 And we had to
learn that in our business because a lot of times a manufacturer would call us,
and it takes six months before they’d decide to hire us to rep them. So, we
weren’t in charge of that. We had no control over that. And maybe we wouldn’t
get it. We wouldn’t get the line. So, we had to just keep building our
business. So, that was one of the places I practiced that a lot.

W Tucker:                            So, it doesn’t
really mean sitting on the couch with a bong, it just means-

Margery
Miller:                 Proactive waiting.
Be proactive with yourself. Do the things that work for you.

W Tucker:                            Sure, improve
yourself. Get yourself better.

Margery
Miller:                 Exactly.

W Tucker:                            And people will be
attracted and call you.

Margery
Miller:                 Exactly.

W Tucker:                            Yeah, yeah.

Margery
Miller:                 You’ll create a
magnetic vibration.

W Tucker:                            Absolutely.
Absolutely. Okay, so now we’re going to find out-

Margery
Miller:                 What’s number
eight.

W Tucker:                            Oh okay. Number
eight.

Margery
Miller:                 Is learn to live
in the fertile void.

W Tucker:                            Okay, fertile void.

Margery
Miller:                 The fertile void
is you’ve planted a garden. If you dig it up before it grows, you’re going to
ruin it. So, there’s a whole lot of stuff in there, and the font in there, the
little roots are growing.

Announcer:                        Thanks for joining us at
Healthy and Fit After 40. We want to thank our incredible guests and ask you to
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that by going to our website, Healthyandfitafter40podcast.com, and the same
name on Facebook, Instagram in LinkedIn. If you have comments or questions,
please email me at wtucker@healthyandfitafterforty.com. I’ll respond to all
comments and answer all questions. Thanks. And stay healthy and fit.

The Challenges of Turning 40 – Rob Griffin – Episode 2 Transcript

the challenges of being in great shape when you’re younger and then turning 40

How Do I Get In Shape? – Justen Smith – Episode 3 Transcript

Justen Smith is a trainer that trains the whole body, not just the physical parts.

How Gluten Can Affect You – Mike Turner – Podcast Episode 1 Transcript

Podcast Tune:                   (singing)

W Tucker:                          This is W Tucker, and welcome to the Healthy and Fit After 50 podcast. Let me give a little bit about what we’re going to do. This podcast is designed to help people over 40 who either want to get in shape, stay in shape, and live longer and better. So that’s our motto, live longer and better. And that’s our goal.

W Tucker:                          So, my history is that I’ve done lots of things in life, but always been passionate about working out, and being in shape, and having great health. And so, that’s what I’ve been about.

W Tucker:                          And so, the guests that we’re going to have will be a variety of guests, and they will talk about different aspects of working out, and diet, and health, and all kinds of things. And our guest today is going to talk a lot about his history of running health food stores and being a trainer. And then particularly, his experience with gluten. And gluten is something that a lot of people have heard a lot about, but they don’t necessarily know exactly what it is or how it can affect you.

W Tucker:                          So, Mike Turner is our guest, and he is going to talk about all of that when we get back from this first break. So, we will be back in about a minute.

Podcast Tune:                   (singing)

W Tucker:                          Welcome back. This is W Tucker with Healthy and Fit After 40. And I said After 50 the first time, and I didn’t mean that, but could it be the same. So After 50 is great. After 40 is even better.

W Tucker:                          So we’ve got Mike Turner here today, and I want to introduce Mike and get him to tell us a little bit about his history and the health and fitness industry. And so Mike, introduce yourself and talk a little bit about that.

Mike Turner:                     Great. Thank you, W. I appreciate you having me today. I’m really excited about this show. I think this is great. I think a lot of people can get some benefit out of this.

Mike Turner:                     My background was just playing sports and being an active kid. And then growing up, and played sports through high school, played into college. And then got out of college. And while I was in college, excuse me, let me go back … While I was in college, got introduced to the health food stores, supplements, really getting into the gym, and learning how to work out, and kind of started doing some amateur bodybuilding. And just learned a lot and was around a lot of different types of people. At the gym, you meet bodybuilders, and you meet powerlifters, and you meet moms that have had a few kids, and they’re just trying to keep, do things-

W Tucker:                          So you got into that early in life.

Mike Turner:                     My parents were always pretty health conscious.

W Tucker:                          Right.

Mike Turner:                     If the sun was out, we were out.

W Tucker:                          Were out. Yeah.

Mike Turner:                     They didn’t want you sitting on the couch. So yeah, we were always pretty active.

W Tucker:                          That’s cool.

Mike Turner:                     But didn’t really get into the gym, and training, and health food, and supplements until later into high school and into college.

W Tucker:                          Right, right. So you were an amateur bodybuilder in high school or college?

Mike Turner:                     In college.

W Tucker:                          In college, okay.

Mike Turner:                     Started in college, and then out of college, and pursued that until I was probably 25, 26.

W Tucker:                          So, and then you got into the health food business.

Mike Turner:                     Yes.

W Tucker:                          Sort of accidentally?

Mike Turner:                     Yeah. So I wandered into a health food store one day in Lubbock, whenever I was going to school at Texas Tech, and asked for a job, and needed some money, and didn’t want to be a poor college kid anymore, and ended up getting, securing a position there. And then got certified as a nutritionist while I was there.

W Tucker:                          Wow. So your degree’s in nutrition, right?

Mike Turner:                     Correct.

W Tucker:                          Right.

Mike Turner:                     Yeah, have a Bachelors in Health and Wellness.

W Tucker:                          From Texas Tech.

Mike Turner:                     Mm-hmm (affirmative).

W Tucker:                          Cool. Very cool. So it was natural for you to work in a health food store, right?

Mike Turner:                     It was, yeah. It was. You get the, “Oh, well you’re one of those health nuts.” And I guess I just like health and wellness. I just, if you can do anything, that’s something, a good skill to learn.

W Tucker:                          Sure. So, being in that business, what is the thing that was the most misconception of people who would come into the store?

Mike Turner:                     I’d probably say they just want that silver bullet. They want to come in and say, what can I take without lifting a finger to enhance my quality of life, or to help me lose some weight, or to help me sleep better, or all that? And there’s tons of supplements out there. I love supplements. I think they’re great, for the right person. But, that was the biggest misconception.

Mike Turner:                     There’s two or three things that you have to do, and one of them is eat well. The other one is visit the gym or do some sort of exercise. And the other one is supplement. And you can kind of dabble in all three, or you can do two of them really, really, really well and maybe neglect the third one. And those are all just kind of, that’s … So my biggest passion is solving problems. That’s just whether it’s a health problem, or if you’re paying too much for something, or whatever the case may be. I just love solving problems.

W Tucker:                          So the three things you just mentioned are kind of important for people to stay healthy no matter who they are.

Mike Turner:                     Oh gosh, oh yeah.

W Tucker:                          So you can’t just go to the gym and ignore the other two.

Mike Turner:                     No, no. And depending on where you are in your life, whenever I was in college, girls were trying to look good in their swimsuit for spring break, and guys were trying to good in their swimsuit for spring break. And then when you’re in your twenties and on up, then you get married. And then you want to look good for your significant other. And then when you’re in your thirties, you probably had a kid or two. And now the mom, she’s trying to look good for the dad, and the dad doesn’t want that belly sneaking up on him. And there’s just a lot of moving parts.

Mike Turner:                     And I’m 35 now, and I’ve been pursuing that lifestyle for a while. And I’ve got friends that are significantly younger than me, and they have-

W Tucker:                          Problems.

Mike Turner:                     They have some things that I don’t have to worry about. And by the grace of God and perseverance, it’s led me down that path.

W Tucker:                          Sure. All right. Thank you, Mike. We will be back in about a minute. So, see you there.

W Tucker:                          All right. We are back with Mike Turner. And it’s Healthy and Fit After 40, a show to help you live longer, better. So Mike told us a little bit about his background, and now what I want him to talk about is something that’s very important that most of you have heard of, but don’t know much about, and that’s gluten. And Mike has a very unique experience in his life that has to do with gluten. So, tell us a little bit about that experience. Started in high school, right?

Mike Turner:                     Yeah. So, symptoms of this allergy started whenever I was a junior in high school. And like I said, I played sports. I was really active, and so my body wasn’t functioning properly. I mean, I could tell, like I was a finely-tuned machine, and somebody put sugar in my gas tank.

Mike Turner:                     And so it started off with joint pain, and I was-

W Tucker:                          When you were in sports or …

Mike Turner:                     Yes.

W Tucker:                          … just in general?

Mike Turner:                     Yeah. I still remember being on the football field, being on the baseball field, and my elbow started hurting when I was throwing the baseball, and my knees would hurt when I was running routes for football. I mean, just everything started feeling like I had arthritis. I was 17, 16, 17 years old. So that kicked in and-

W Tucker:                          And you had no idea what was going on?

Mike Turner:                     No. I’m mean, that wasn’t a thing that was widely-

W Tucker:                          Gluten wasn’t … right.

Mike Turner:                     Yeah, nobody knew about it. Now it’s, I mean, everybody knows about it. People that don’t even have to do it know about it, and they just think it’s healthier. And sometimes that’s accurate and sometimes it’s not.

Mike Turner:                     But I got to college and started working at the health food stores, like we talked about. And my manager there at the time, we ate a pizza for lunch, and 20, 30 minutes later I started sneezing just uncontrollably. My eyes starting watering. And he just kind of looked at me, and he’s like, “Goodness, are you okay?”

Mike Turner:                     I said, “Well yeah, I’m fine,” because it was normal to me. This is just what I had lived with for the last four or five years. And he said, “Okay, do you know what gluten is?”

Mike Turner:                     And I said, “No, what does that mean?”

Mike Turner:                     And he said, “Well, after seeing you eat that pizza, I think you may have a gluten allergy.”

Mike Turner:                     And so, we had a local doctor that shopped in our health food store, and so the next time he came in, I said, “Hey, can I pick your brain, and come by your office one day and see you, and we can chat a little bit,” because he was very well-versed in that field.

W Tucker:                          He was a healthy guy?

Mike Turner:                     Yes, yes. He was a more naturally inclined doctor. So I went and sat in his office for 30 minutes one day, and he said, “Here’s a list of all the stuff you cannot eat and drink.”

W Tucker:                          Wow. Wow.

Mike Turner:                     Because I was in college, and we enjoyed ourselves. And he said, “The test to do this is $500.”

W Tucker:                          [crosstalk 00:12:09].

Mike Turner:                     And I said, “I don’t have $500 to spend on this. That’s ridiculous.”

W Tucker:                          That was a test for all allergies? Is that what it was?

Mike Turner:                     It was … more or less, yes.

W Tucker:                          More or less, okay.

Mike Turner:                     Like a-

W Tucker:                          Like a comprehensive.

Mike Turner:                     Correct. Like a panel. And so he goes, “Or the other test is just don’t eat this stuff for a week and see how you feel.”

Mike Turner:                     And I said “Well, give me that one.”

Mike Turner:                     So sure enough, a week later, went back in and saw him, and I said, “Thank you so much for telling me about this. This was incredible.” My joints don’t hurt. I was always very, very thin, and just in that week’s time, and then after that significantly, I started putting on more muscle.

W Tucker:                          Wow.

Mike Turner:                     And it’s because-

W Tucker:                          So it’s this a list of gluten objects and foods?

Mike Turner:                     Yes. It’s not that you-

W Tucker:                          Okay.

Mike Turner:                     Stuff that makes sense to people-

W Tucker:                          So how does he know that? He was just guessing? He was just guessing that was-

Mike Turner:                     No, no, no. This time he knew 100%.

W Tucker:                          Oh, okay.

Mike Turner:                     There’s gluten in bread, pasta, these flours, it’s in beer, it’s in all these things. It’s in a lot of sauces. So, it’s things with sauces or gravies. Sometimes that’s not the first thing you think of, but it’s in there.

W Tucker:                          So you avoided all these things for a week?

Mike Turner:                     Oh yeah, yeah. And it was crazy. At first I was like, well what am I going to eat? I can’t eat bread. I can’t eat sandwiches. I can’t eat pasta. I can’t eat pizza. I can’t drink a beer. I can’t do any of these things. So you kind of revert to what’s popular now is like the keto diet or the caveman diet. And it’s meats, fruits, vegetables, no processed foods. And that’s a big part of it too. So yeah, I started getting on the right track, and eating the right things, and not eating the wrong things. And my goal was to gain 25, 30 pounds of lean muscle over the next year. And I accomplished that.

W Tucker:                          You were able … right.

Mike Turner:                     And something was just, it was the craziest thing I’d ever seen. What people don’t understand, if you’re eating something that you’re allergic to, it’s like getting a little dose of poison, if you think of it that way. So if you said there’s just a little bit of rat poison in that, are you going to go ahead and eat that cupcake? And for a while I was like, “Yeah, give me that cupcake.”

W Tucker:                          Give me that cupcake.

Mike Turner:                     But then after a while, and you deal with the symptoms, I was like, it’s just not worth it. I mean, it just wasn’t worth it to me to feel that lousy. I was young. I should have been in the best shape of my life. And-

W Tucker:                          Especially since you were exercising and-

Mike Turner:                     And it was an uphill fight, and it was just terrible. But after that came around, there was a lot of other things I was dealing with like ADD, or had trouble focusing, or I would read a book and get to the end of the page, and I couldn’t remember what I read. And I think a lot of people deal with just a simple thing like that. And I can contribute all that back to me putting something in my body every single day that didn’t agree with me.

Mike Turner:                     And that’s just something I’ve kind of learned now. Now, if there’s something continually present in my life, I’m sitting here going, “Okay, what am I doing that’s putting this problem in my way, putting this obstacle in my way?”

Mike Turner:                     But, the gluten’s tough. It’s tricky. It’s in everything. There are some things they just add that directly to, to make it last longer on the shelf or to thicken it up. So there’s a lot of different things that do contain it.

W Tucker:                          All right. We are going to come back with Mike in about a minute, and let him finish the story, and talk more about gluten. So thanks, and we’ll see you in a minute.

W Tucker:                          All right, thank you for coming back. This is W Tucker with Healthy and Fit After 40, and that is what we want to do is help you live longer and better. And we have Mike Turner, who is a bodybuilder, health nutritionist, has a nutritional, both a Bachelors and a Masters, right, in nutrition?

Mike Turner:                     I was certified as a nutritionist, so not a true Masters, but a lot of people that are do have Masters.

W Tucker:                          And so, he had experience with gluten, and he just told us about his experience, and we’re going to talk a little bit more about what it is that people should look for if they’re gluten-intolerant, and kind of things that you have learned over the years. So, tell us a little bit about that.

Mike Turner:                     Sure, yeah, absolutely. So, for me in my journey, whenever I realized what was going on, I was an athlete, and I need to perform, and wanted to be healthy in all these different aspects of life. And the first thing I noticed was joint pain. So I was running-

W Tucker:                          And that was when you were in high school?

Mike Turner:                     Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So when I was running, when I was working out, my joints just felt like they were falling apart. And so I’m like, “I’m too young to have arthritis. What’s going on?”

W Tucker:                          So what other symptoms were there besides joint pain?

Mike Turner:                     A lot of gastric upset. So gas, bloating, frequent trips to the restroom. Some people experience constipation. I mean, it can do-

W Tucker:                          So gluten could do a lot of different things.

Mike Turner:                     It can do a ton of things, yeah. And so, that was just your more immediate things that you recognize, people with joint pain, people with their stomach having issues, or they have gas, or they have bloating, or anything that’s digestive-wise. But a lot of people have headaches, or a lot of people have rashes, have terrible skin rashes where they break out. And some people-

W Tucker:                          So do you think other people like you nowadays don’t know what they’ve got?

Mike Turner:                     A hundred percent, 100%, yeah.

W Tucker:                          A lot of people have it and just don’t realize it.

Mike Turner:                     Oh no. And it’s because there’s so many allergens out there. I mean, if a kid goes outside, maybe it’s the grass, maybe it’s tree pollen, maybe it’s flower pollen, maybe it’s dairy, maybe it’s wheat. You have-

W Tucker:                          You may not really know what it is.

Mike Turner:                     Yeah. You have no idea until you do that panel and do a full spectrum allergy test and figure out, okay, what I can have, what I can’t have, what’s dietary, what’s environmental. But I mean, people have headaches, and you can contribute that to removing gluten from your diet. And maybe the headaches go away.

Mike Turner:                     And so, I’m a big fan of trial and error. I want to live it, I want to understand it, and maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t. But at least I tried it. And that was kind of my thinking in all this.

W Tucker:                          So it took you years before you figured out what it was when that doctor came by and said, “Come to my office.” And you cut out the foods that he asked, and all of a sudden you were cured.

Mike Turner:                     Oh yeah. I mean, yeah, it was about a week’s time. Some people take months, some people take three to six months before all that can clear out of your system, and your body, it’s kind of like an autoimmune function. You’re putting in this little bit of poison and this little allergy in there all the time, and your body’s just continually trying to attack it. And until you remove that, things don’t really clear up.

W Tucker:                          So is it only for folks who have an intolerance? So folks who don’t have an intolerance, it’s okay or not? You just think it’s a bad thing, anyway.

Mike Turner:                     So now you’re going to get me into the health nut side.

W Tucker:                          Right.

Mike Turner:                     So, I’ve read enough and done some research to that shows that the wheat that we eat today is not the same wheat that’s present, or that was present in the past, or that’s present in different countries. So in Europe, their wheat that they have over there is really more of like a true wheat, and so-

W Tucker:                          So it has less gluten? Is that what you’re saying?

Mike Turner:                     No, it’s just different.

W Tucker:                          Different, okay.

Mike Turner:                     It’s just a different structure. And here in America, we need a overabundance of food, and so they genetically alter and genetically modify certain crops and certain things to make them last longer to get more benefit out of them so they don’t have as much spoilage. They can sit on the shelf longer, and so on and so forth.

W Tucker:                          And gluten does that?

Mike Turner:                     And I think altering those things can make it more detrimental to the consumer. And the reason I say that is we go to a pizza place, and it’s owned by an Italian family, and they fly in all the ingredients from Italy. And I can eat a regular pizza there and not have to eat gluten-free.

W Tucker:                          Wow.

Mike Turner:                     And it doesn’t affect me.

W Tucker:                          That’s amazing.

Mike Turner:                     And not everybody’s like that. I’m not telling everybody to go find some something like that, but that kind of verified my research and some of my understanding of what we have now is more of a cousin to the wheat product and the wheat family as opposed to the original. It’s kind of like a copy of a copy. A copy of a copy is going to be a little less.

W Tucker:                          Less, right.

Mike Turner:                     It’s going to have some other issues. Does that kind of make sense?

W Tucker:                          It does. So, you would recommend people stay away from gluten?

Mike Turner:                     I mean, you always want to talk to your doctor, and you always want to see what they would recommend because they see this a hundred times a day, and they’ve seen things that they could probably point right at you and go, “If it was me, I wouldn’t drink milk anymore,” or, “If it was me, I wouldn’t eat wheat anymore.”

Mike Turner:                     We can do a test, and we can figure that out, but if the person doesn’t want to spend medical bills or doesn’t want to inquire some of those costs, you can just kind of do like I did when I was a poor college kid and just remove those things from your diet.

W Tucker:                          Just not eat them, right.

Mike Turner:                     You could do what’s called an elimination diet, and you start with one thing. So, let’s say the first week of your elimination diet, you’re not going to eat bread. So you just removed bread, and you fill those calories with something else, and then go on down the road, and keep trying different ingredients, and keep trying or removing different things, and just see what works for you.

W Tucker:                          And obviously for you, it not only solved a lot of your joint and all those other problems, but made you feel better.

Mike Turner:                     Oh gosh, yeah. I mean, it was day and night. It was … It’s hard to explain. It’s kind of like having the flu and then not having the flu. You look back, and you were just like, oh my gosh, that was terrible.

W Tucker:                          Right. And didn’t really know.

Mike Turner:                     Yeah. And you just

[crosstalk 00:23:36]

.

W Tucker:                          That’s the way was.

Mike Turner:                     Right. That’s exactly right.

W Tucker:                          So people could benefit greatly from cutting out gluten in their diet?

Mike Turner:                     Yeah. If you think, if you’re having joint pain, or if you’re having headaches, or if you’re having … I think the clock just went off. [crosstalk 00:23:53]. If you’re having a number of different symptoms, I mean, it can be contributed back to anything. And so how do you dial it down and say, “Gluten is the problem.” And that’s where the allergy tests, or that’s where talking to your physician comes in. But like I said, in my time whenever that presented itself to me, I didn’t have that option. So I just said, “Yeah, I’ll not eat this list of things for a week,” and see what happens.

W Tucker:                          All right. Fantastic. All right. We thank you, Mike. We will be back in just a minute with more from Mike Turner.

Podcast Tune:                   (singing)

W Tucker:                          All right. We are back at W Tucker with Healthy and Fit After 40, and our motto is the live longer, better. And we have Mike Turner as our guest today, and he’s talked about gluten. And I thought maybe we would just let Mike talk a little bit about his experience with gluten and what he suggests to people. And then we’ll talk about the business he’s in now, which is Goosehead Insurance.

W Tucker:                          So Mike, kind of summarize what we’ve talked about in the gluten and what you feel like people should know about it and take heed of.

Mike Turner:                     Yeah. So kind of the biggest thing that I try to look at is, if there’s a goal that you’re trying to achieve, or if there’s something that’s present every day in your life that you’re just not loving, maybe it’s headaches, maybe it’s I’m trying to lose this weight around my belly and I just cannot do it, maybe I’m trying to work better on my focus. A lot of kids-

W Tucker:                          Oh, so you think gluten does affect that, too?

Mike Turner:                     Oh, a hundred percent.

W Tucker:                          [crosstalk 00:27:09].

Mike Turner:                     And I’ll vouch for that personally. Like if I have some pizza for the next two or three days, like I just cannot draw words from memory, I can’t tell a story.

W Tucker:                          Wow.

Mike Turner:                     My focus is off, I’ll read the book and get to the end of the page.

W Tucker:                          Wow.

Mike Turner:                     And what was I doing? Or I’ll get into the kitchen and look around and go-

W Tucker:                          What was I here for?

Mike Turner:                     “I know I came in here for a reason.” You know, right?

W Tucker:                          Right.

Mike Turner:                     People do this all the time, and we just chalk it up to, oh, I’m forgetful; or well, I’m 35, maybe I’m just supposed to have memory problems.

W Tucker:                          Not at 35.

Mike Turner:                     Yeah, of course. That’s crazy. But this was stuff that was going on in my twenties, and when I cleaned up some things, some other things cleared up, and it kind of made me aware, like oh man, I’m focusing better now, I’m telling stories better now, I can remember what that word is called now, things like that that I would never have even thought-

W Tucker:                          Never attributed to some sort of gluten in your diet.

Mike Turner:                     No. I mean, heck, I’d never even heard of gluten. How was I supposed to know that was causing all these myriad of problems? But that’s why it’s kind of hard to say, what are you dealing with, or what are you trying to overcome. And this target of gluten, that’s the answer.

Mike Turner:                     I think it does a lot of things to a lot of people, but there’s no way of knowing what it’s going to do or how it affects you until you do that elimination diet, remove it, educate yourself, do some research from a valid resource. Don’t just google it and take the first thing you see. But there’s tons of books on gluten and wheat and what it can do to your body, if it doesn’t agree with you. Some people can eat it, and they’re fine. It doesn’t bother them at all.

Mike Turner:                     But that’s kind of the biggest thing is just listen to your body.

W Tucker:                          Absolutely.

Mike Turner:                     Know how you feel. If you wake up every day and something hurts, and it shouldn’t hurt, look into that. There’s a reason. Your body’s tell trying to tell you something. And so, I just kind of turned my years on and started listening one day.

W Tucker:                          So tell us a little bit about what you’re doing nowadays.

Mike Turner:                     Okay, great. So now, for the last few years, I’ve been an insurance broker. So what that means is as an independent insurance broker, I don’t work for a big name insurance company.

W Tucker:                          Like a State Farm or a

[crosstalk 00:29:32]

.

Mike Turner:                     Yeah, correct, yeah. So most people, if you see their ads on TV, they pay millions and millions and millions of dollars to run those ads. Well guess pays for that. It always comes back to somebody. And so, usually what I say is, “If you haven’t looked at your insurance rates in two years,” that’s about the shelf life of a policy, whether it’s home insurance, auto insurance, boat, RV, investment property, any of those things, “If you haven’t looked at them, and you just get your renewal in the mail, and you go, ‘Oh, it went up again,’ and you throw it in the drawer, and you look at it again and 12 months, you need to call somebody who does what I do.”

Mike Turner:                     So, if you don’t like me, don’t call me, and that’s fine. But you need to reach out to somebody who’s a professional that can evaluate the entire market, that can look at multiple companies, that can say, “Hey, this company offers x, this company offers y. You’re the target client for this company. They can give you the best deal and the best product or the policy to go with it.”

W Tucker:                          And I’m a good example of that because I had car insurance and, of course, we don’t know what we have. So, I turned it over to a Goosehead agent like Mike, and he said, “Oh my God, you’re so underinsured that you need to like quadruple what you got.” So for the same price, he gave me five times the coverage that I already had.

Mike Turner:                     That’s great.

W Tucker:                          So that’s the benefits of Goosehead, so …

Mike Turner:                     Absolutely. And you know, I’m an honest guy and I’ll tell you, “Hey, you’ve been with this company for so long, and you’re paying this much, and your policy provides these things.” I won’t get into the technical nerdy insurance stuff, I’ll leave that for another day, but I mean, it’s as simple as I can look at a policy, I know multiple carriers, multiple companies, what they offer, and so I can look at your situation and say, “I can have a better solution for you,” or “Where you are currently, and what you’re paying, and what you’re receiving for that is the best spot that you can possibly be in right now.”

Mike Turner:                     And then we’ll call you back in six months and I’ll run all my numbers again. So that’s kind of the power of choice. That’s kind of how we market ourselves.

W Tucker:                          Absolutely.

Mike Turner:                     We have the power of choice.

W Tucker:                          You’re not stuck with one provider.

Mike Turner:                     No. No, no, no, not at all.

W Tucker:                          So, where can people find you?

Mike Turner:                     Great question. So, we office out of Plano, Texas, and we were formally in Frisco for a number of years, and then just crossed right over 121. So, it’s technically a Plano address, but you can reach our office at (972) 999-1518, or you can shoot me an email at Mike, M-I-K-E, dot, Turner, T-U-R-N-E-R, @goosehead.com.

W Tucker:                          So, is there a website associated with it or is your email the best way to get you?

Mike Turner:                     Email’s the best way.

W Tucker:                          Okay.

Mike Turner:                     I mean, we have our Facebook presence website, and our social media presence.

W Tucker:                          All right.

Mike Turner:                     And we tag ourselves as the insurance superheroes. So, we just try to have fun with it, not be your boring old, your agent.

W Tucker:                          Sure. So repeat both your email and your phone number.

Mike Turner:                     Yeah. So email is Mike.Turner@goosehead.com. And office phone is (972) 999-1518. And cell phone is (214) 457-3480.

W Tucker:                          All right. So, say your cell phone one more.

Mike Turner:                     Cell phone is (214) 457-3480.

W Tucker:                          All right. Thank you very much, Mike.

Mike Turner:                     Thank you. I do appreciate you having me today.

W Tucker:                          It’s been a real pleasure to learn about gluten and to get to know you better, too.

Mike Turner:                     It was. Thank you.

W Tucker:                          So thanks. All right. Thank you, Mike. I appreciate you being here. And this is W Tucker with Healthy and Fit After 40. And we will see you next week. Thanks.

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